Carolyn Wiger Wanted to Be Underestimated. She Also Wanted Respect.

Spoilers follow for The Traitors season three, episode nine, “A Silent Assassin.”

On this week’s episode of The Traitors, a tragedy: Carolyn Wiger, Queen of the Expressive Face, is banished from the castle. Wiger’s elimination comes as something of a surprise; widely celebrated for her quirky, unfiltered, and emotionally open nature that’s rooted in her history overcoming addiction, the Survivor alum is a formidable strategist who typically uses others’ underestimation of her to advance her gameplay. This tactic seemed to work for much of this season, with the Faithfuls often doubting Wiger’s capacity to be duplicitous (“She’s all over the place,” “I just can’t see her pulling it off”) while focusing on louder players like Boston Rob and Wes Bergmann. What’s more, it was fellow Traitor Danielle Reyes, not Wiger, who entered this week with more heat on her.

But Wiger’s shield of modesty finally ran out, owing in part to a series of missteps that offered clues to her identity in the episode’s chess challenge. Reyes would exploit this during the roundtable, combining the Faithfuls’ emerging mistrust of Wiger with a line of attack that blew up how others had perceived her. The fiery face-off between the two was a natural climax of the Traitors’ escalating mistrust, dating back to Reyes’s response to Boston Rob turning on Bob the Drag Queen. Their ability to work together never recovered, perhaps by design, as it never seemed like Reyes wanted to finish the game with Wiger anyway. As Reyes prosecuted the case, Wiger wasn’t able to mount a solid-enough defense and was ultimately voted out of the game — leaving Reyes as the sole surviving Traitor. Wiger, for her part, plans to do everything she can to keep proving weirdos belong: “I have so many people who reach out to me to say, ‘I didn’t even think a freak like me could go on TV until I saw you.’”

I’ll admit, I did not see your banishment coming. How are you feeling as the episode comes out?
Well, no surprise: Emotional, as I am an emotional person, but I believe in feeling my feelings and processing them and getting them out. It was such an incredible experience. So, it sucks. It really sucks.

With Survivor, it was different. By the end of it, Yam Yam deserved to win. Of course, I wanted to win and felt like I deserved at least a few votes, but I was very happy for him. With this, I thought I could win. I guess that’s what they say about expectations: Don’t have them. They leave you disappointed. And truly, my heart was broken. This was way harder of a loss than Survivor, because I felt like I was winning. It’s not like I got overly confident. I thought I did a good job of keeping it in when I needed to keep it in, and it just didn’t …

It felt like the turn in the episode came when the other players started to suspect you during the chess challenge. Was that something you sensed in the moment?
I did not feel that suspicion on me, not at all. I had conversations with Dylan, and he told me, “I don’t know if we have the numbers to do Danielle.” But in typical Carolyn fashion, I just couldn’t hold it in anymore. Part of me was like, Oh my gosh, this is the last night we’re going to be able to recruit. I just kept dreaming of bringing Gabby in there and having fun, because that’s what I was missing. I was dying to just have fun. And being in the turret with Danielle, it wasn’t fun. People’s energies impact us. In the castle, when you’re around somebody who is constantly shaking and crying — she brought me into this funk, and I hate that anyone had that power over me. I get that we all came for different reasons, but I just wanted to have fun.

Tell me more about your dynamic in the turret. Things felt very tense between you.
First of all, I wouldn’t have gone after her. Did I ever think it was going to be the two of us together at the end? No, because she’ll be out way before me. That was the thinking in my head. I wasn’t going to come for a Traitor unless it was absolutely necessary.

Working with her in the turret felt like a nightmare. It’s like something would switch in her. I know I am not the best speaker sometimes. It takes me a minute to process when you have someone talking to you the way she did. I felt completely shut down and not heard. It brings me to every time in my life where I’ve been discounted or talked down to. I would have to be like, “What the heck? What are you doing? All right, I’ll go with the flow.” I often felt like I was alone in there. No one’s hearing what I have to say.

It was when she wanted me to bring Britney in — “Girl, me and you at the end, sisterhood!” I can’t even describe to you the feeling in my stomach. I guess a smart game player would’ve kept it in and been like, “Yeah, I trust you too, girl!” and then move on. But I was so grossed out. It’s like, You must think I don’t even have a brain. Girl, get out of here. I didn’t know what to do. I wasn’t sure I had the votes. I couldn’t even talk to anyone. Do you really think I thought I could depend on Tom Sandoval? Absolutely not. But I figured I had to go after her. She’s way more suspicious than me. There’s way more on her than me. I just knew I couldn’t go in the turret another night with her. And I was dreaming of fun and butterflies and dancing around with Gabby.

You being shut down happened so much. You have very good game-playing instincts, but people were not listening to you. I can only imagine how frustrating that must feel. Did that affect you moving through production day to day?
I was never giving up, but the feeling is like, God, how do I navigate this? Once Danielle came for me, though, that’s when all hell broke loose. It was like, Okay, I guess I just can’t be super-loud at the roundtable. I was dying inside. There was this thing inside of me fighting to get out. I felt bored. That sounds really weird, but I was.

After that Ciara vote, I was like, What did I come here for? Do I want to win? I do a lot of self-talk where I’m like, Carolyn, you got this, blah, blah, blah. It was Survivor all over again. But part of it, too, I want people to discount me. I want people to underestimate me.

There’s strategy in this.
Yes, but, hello, you can treat me with respect. You can talk to me like a person. I know that I roll my eyes and that I can’t control my face sometimes, but I don’t just turn into that for nothing.

You’ve spoken elsewhere about feeling a kinship with Tom because you’re both weirdos …
One hundred percent.

Did the two of you bond directly in the castle?
I’m sad that you don’t really see our dynamic on the show. I didn’t know who the hell Tom Sandoval was. I don’t watch Vanderpump Rules. Of course, everybody warned me: “That’s Tom Sandoval. Stay away from him. He’s a cheater. He’s done some bad things.” And I’m thinking in my head, Yeah, I’ve done some messed-up things in my past when I wasn’t sober, and I hated myself back then. Let me just judge this person for right now; let me see how I like him.

And he opened up. He shared his story. He talked about his struggles. That’s how I connect with people: by sharing and talking about your life. He was real and open and honest. I get it, some people might have preexisting beef with him or have friends in common, and that’s none of my business, but I am not going to hate on him and make fun of him. That killed me. There was this ganged-up group mentality that sees him as this monster of the universe. My experience with him was not like that.

He’s quirky as hell. He’s odd. He’s weird. And I’m a strange one! I’m the same way, so I can relate. I would see the way people looked at him, and it pissed me off. I was like, Leave him alone! All because he really was trying so hard. He would be the fastest runner. He truly was out there to investigate a damn murder. I’ll respect that. But I told him, “Stop trying so hard. They’re not listening to you. They probably already have these judgments about you. Fuck, Tom, just lean into your weird. Just accept it.”

Would that generally be your advice to the next weirdo in the cast?
I feel like I’ve been able to do well because I am so open and so vulnerable. I share. I don’t have a filter. I put it all out there. You can tell when people are putting it on. You can tell when people aren’t genuine or authentic. It’s so obvious. So I was like, “You know what, Tom? You had sweaty pits that day. Own it. Who cares? We all sweat.”

People just completely discounted what he said. He had valid points. What he said mattered. How they treated him — I hated it. And I see people who are like, “Oh, we can’t talk about Tom like this or we’re going to get canceled.” Fuck off!

You’re celebrated by Survivor-heads, and now Traitors fans, for being emotionally vulnerable and underestimated. To what extent are you aware that people are connecting and rooting for you? How do you feel about that?
That’s literally what inspired me to do Survivor. I was like, There’s got to be other freaks like me. I’m sorry, but there’s nothing worse than watching a TV show and seeing someone all perfect. I wish they would’ve shown people fucking up more, because that’s real life! None of us are perfect. None of us.

I know I’m not the norm. But I believe in being yourself and putting it all out there, because that’s going to resonate with people. It’s kind of scary to do that, too, because we can get made fun of. Bring it on. I never knew how I’d be perceived on Survivor. And then with this show, I knew it was going to be a whole new ball game with these Bravo and Housewives people. They’re going to be like, “What is this person?” But I don’t read all that shit. At the end of the day, I really feel like I’m able to connect and help other people who don’t fit into the friggin’ mold of a Housewife.